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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2008 9:43:06 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1760
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
While most scholars believe that the "Tsara’ath" covered a wider range of skin disorders beyond just Hansen's disease, the majority believe that it was often an indication of Hansen's. A good reference would be "New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis".
More to the point, no scientist (or theologian that I am aware of) would accept the claim made by Tracydolls that the Leprosy described in the bible was a disease that caused the Caucasian race to have white skin. That is simply absurd!
Belenchi
I agree with you. I didn't mean to imply that Tracy Dolls was right on everything. She has indicated that a lot of the empires of ancient fame were black and not light colored races, stuff like that.
And when I did go and look at the NET Bible, the notes DID SAY that the term translated as leprosy was a broad range of skin infections. Heck, I suppose it could have included cancer for all it know.
I only meant that it wasn't necessarily Hansen's Disease.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2008 9:51:18 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1760
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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Hmmm. I wonder.
Does the bubonic plague (black dead) make Caucasians' skin turn black?
Does scarlet fever make people look like Indians?
Does yellow fever make people look like Asians?
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2008 10:09:30 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3156
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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A couple questions..
Does it matter to you what skin pigment people have?
Does skin pigment alone make a person....anything?
Do you assess morality by skin pigment?
Have you ever hired someone because of the color of their skin?
Have you ever fired someone because of the color of their skin?
Have you ever excluded someone from your group because of the color of their skin?
Do you know of anyone who has been excluded from a group, promotion or employment because of the color of their skin?
Would you marry only within your race?
How many close friends do you have that have a different skin color?
Is the majority of people at your church one skin color?
When you see a person of another skin color, do you atttribute certain charactoristics to them?
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/18/2008 1:14:50 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7421
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Actually moving on means that you don't bring up the subject. Moving on means that you put the past behind you. There's only one reason I can come up with to keep bringing up the past, and that is to make people feel guilty. Why do that if it's forgiven?
To you, that's what that means. To you. So you IGNORE a wound to HEAL it? OK. Do you feel guilty when the past is brought up? Why? There's nothing you can do to change even yesterday. WE have to talk about the past.
Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt, that is past. But we can't talk about it?
What are you asking FORGIVENESS for if you don't at least say it.
quote:
I'm not saying you don't have the right to do so. You certainly do. But is it right? Could I start talking about all the times I as a white man have been the victim of discrimination of various kinds. Would that be right? Of course not.
Ahhh but what would you as a Christian say?
To me, a recovering racist.
A Black Woman.
That's the answer I'm looking for. That's why I'm here. Why are you here?
That's what many Christians have told me to do...... just ignore what blacks did to me.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/18/2008 1:22:04 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7421
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
A couple questions..
Does it matter to you what skin pigment people have?
no
quote:
Does skin pigment alone make a person....anything?
no
quote:
Do you assess morality by skin pigment?
no
quote:
Have you ever hired someone because of the color of their skin?
no
quote:
Have you ever fired someone because of the color of their skin?
No, I've never fired anyone. I've also never known anyone to get fired based on skin pigmentation.
quote:
Have you ever excluded someone from your group because of the color of their skin?
no
quote:
Do you know of anyone who has been excluded from a group, promotion or employment because of the color of their skin?
No. I've known people to not get a job based on their education, experience and/or training and blame that on their skin color.
quote:
Would you marry only within your race?
no
quote:
How many close friends do you have that have a different skin color?
None right now, but I haven't been back in this area very long.
quote:
Is the majority of people at your church one skin color?
Yes, and it's not white.
quote:
When you see a person of another skin color, do you attribute certain characteristics to them?
no
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/18/2008 2:55:59 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7421
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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OK- I get the word of the day from dictionary.com. While I was on vacation, this word was one of the words. Just wondering if it's considered racist or not?
blackguard \BLAG-uhrd\, noun:
1. A rude or unscrupulous person; a scoundrel.
2. A person who uses foul or abusive language.
3. Scurrilous; abusive; low; worthless; vicious; as, "blackguard language."
4. To revile or abuse in scurrilous language.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/18/2008 7:49:49 AM
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revbob4God
Posts: 606
Joined: 7/25/2008
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denim, I believe it is a matter of perception. It is a word like any other word, but then, somebody may take offense by it. But then again, SOmeone really hypersensitive to the point of being unstable would probably become offended if someone else used the word strawberry shortcake, or teletubby.
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/18/2008 8:03:36 AM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 706
Joined: 6/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
OK- I get the word of the day from dictionary.com. While I was on vacation, this word was one of the words. Just wondering if it's considered racist or not?
blackguard \BLAG-uhrd\, noun:
1. A rude or unscrupulous person; a scoundrel.
2. A person who uses foul or abusive language.
3. Scurrilous; abusive; low; worthless; vicious; as, "blackguard language."
4. To revile or abuse in scurrilous language.
I think it's actually a compliment if you say it of a pirate!
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/18/2008 9:21:05 AM
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mrsrevbob
Posts: 185
Joined: 7/31/2008
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i agree.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/18/2008 9:50:27 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
Just wondering if it's considered racist or not?
blackguard \BLAG-uhrd\, noun
no.
quote:
, SOmeone really hypersensitive to the point of being unstable
Don't let unstable people dictate what stable people do or believe. Those people need to be put away and their ideas/beliefs ignored.
quote:
Have you ever hired someone because of the color of their skin?
yes
quote:
Do you know of anyone who has been excluded from a group, promotion or employment because of the color of their skin?
of couse - many times and in many ways.
quote:
Would you marry only within your race?
yes
quote:
How many close friends do you have that have a different skin color?
none
quote:
Is the majority of people at your church one skin color?
yes
quote:
When you see a person of another skin color, do you attribute certain characteristics to them?
sometimes yes
When I see an Asian student/doctor I think to think "brains".
____
To the questions I didn't respond to the answer is no.
< Message edited by P31W -- 8/18/2008 9:59:58 AM >
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/18/2008 11:09:01 AM
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Zhi
Posts: 1500
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: offline
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Interesting questions.
quote:
Does it matter to you what skin pigment people have?
Nope.
quote:
Does skin pigment alone make a person....anything?
I suppose it might indicate their continent of family origin. It also might make them less prone to sunburn than me. Other than that, no.
quote:
Do you assess morality by skin pigment?
No.
quote:
Have you ever hired someone because of the color of their skin?
I have never actually hired anyone but I have been involved in the interview process and given my opinion on their hiring, and it never occurred to me that skin color should be considered (I just care whether or not they can do the work).
quote:
Have you ever fired someone because of the color of their skin?
Never fired anyone.
quote:
Have you ever excluded someone from your group because of the color of their skin?
Heh. In many of my "groups" my skin color is the odd one...
quote:
Do you know of anyone who has been excluded from a group, promotion or employment because of the color of their skin?
Nope.
quote:
Would you marry only within your race?
I'm already married but that wasn't a criteria at all. I have two black cousins from Haiti (adopted). In fact, one of those black cousins (dad's side) is dating one of my other mostly-white-some-native cousins (mom's side) and I think it would be awesome of they got married (they're both wonderful Christian people).
quote:
How many close friends do you have that have a different skin color?
Quite a few. Most are asian, a few hispanics, a few blacks (I meet more asians due to my line of work).
quote:
Is the majority of people at your church one skin color?
I think my church is probably half white, half black/asian/hispanic/etc.
quote:
When you see a person of another skin color, do you atttribute certain charactoristics to them?
Well, I suppose skin color is, in and of itself, an attribute. Someone describing me would probably say I'm white with a lot of freckles, among other things. *shrug*
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/18/2008 9:14:33 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 470
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Does it matter to you what skin pigment people have?
No it doesn't matter at all. I like all shades.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Does skin pigment alone make a person....anything?
No a person's skin color doesn't have any affect on the person. How a person is treated based on skin color may/can affect said person.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Do you assess morality by skin pigment?
Again skin color has nothing to do with personality, morality, worldview, etc.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Have you ever hired someone because of the color of their skin?
Never hired anyone and wouldn't do it based on skin color if I ever did.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Have you ever fired someone because of the color of their skin?
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Have you ever excluded someone from your group because of the color of their skin?
Nope never did or would do that.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Do you know of anyone who has been excluded from a group, promotion or employment because of the color of their skin?
Yes.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Would you marry only within your race?
Yeah. I will only marry humans.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
How many close friends do you have that have a different skin color?
I have a small circle of friends. Some closer than others. However I don't choose if a friends is going to be close based on skin color. It's a matter of shared world view, personality, etc.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Is the majority of people at your church one skin color?
Pretty mixed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
When you see a person of another skin color, do you attribute certain characteristics to them?
What do you mean? Physical features or assuming that a black guy that is 6'-6" must be good at basketball?
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2008 9:10:14 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
What do you mean? Physical features or assuming that a black guy that is 6'-6" must be good at basketball?
ROFL,
I guess for me it has more to do with "other things" such as mentioned above. No matter what his skin color was I would wonder if he was a basketball player.
One time I saw a group of extremely large well built men with long hair in a grocery store. They were HOT!!! LOL EVERYONE stared at them. They dressed differantly too. Finally I asked, "Ok so who are you?" They were chippendale dancers. I knew they were too good looking not do somthing with their bods for a living 
Football players also tend to catch my eye. At least the linemen do.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2008 11:42:39 AM
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tinydancer2
Posts: 1181
Joined: 3/21/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: zmanfan38
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
Because I dont think most Bible Scholars think the leprosy mentioned in the Bible is the same diseases we see now.
You don't think?
Source please. And can our source be the Bible because I'm pretty sure you'd argue with the Scholars depending on where they stood...kind of like you did me in my last post. Take 4 semesters of Microbiology and work in a Micro lab for 13 years and then we'll hash that argument again.
Following the lead of some wise friends who have posted here and got racist yada-yada for responses...unsubing and blocking.
God bless everyone! 
Sorry, zmanfan38,
I think Tracy is right on this one. As for the source, I can dig it up but the notes in my NET Bible say pretty much the same thing. It was translated by some pretty top evangelical seminary scholars.
Besides, if you look at some of the scriptures on leprosy, you will note that the Bible talks about leprosy being in inanimate objects like the walls of a house (Lev. 14:33). Do you really think that refers to what the British have called Hansen's Disease? In the walls of a house?
"Leprosy is a very enigmatic subject. Often it is associated with the Bible but only in the older versions. Most of the later translations render the Hebrew and Greek words as "Terrible Skin Disease" etc. and yet, paradoxically, "Leprosy", as we know it today, basically is not a skin disease. Essentially, it is a disease which affects the nerves, although not the central nervous system. Only the peripheral nerves and their cutaneous branches are involved. What then was the "leprosy" of the Bible? Was it what we call "Hansen’s Disease" today? The answer is No. The Hebrew word "Tsara’ath" may have included Hansen’s Disease or what is called True Leprosy today, but even this is doubted"
Bold emphasis mine.
http://www.webspawner.com/users/LEPBIBLE/
Well, I never saw a person with hanseniase "white as snow" including their hairs...yes I saw people with the desease in "leperes colonies" in Brasil where those carrying the desease "had to live" on the 1970's 80's, but I think the laws have changed reggarding that, not sure. Having a Mom as a social worker I did saw many things while she visited places and etc. I think Brasil still is after India, ranking 2nd place in the world with the desease and 47.000 new cases every year of it! This "leper" mentioning in this thread for sure did reminds me I do need to go back to my roots and not just that, but the reality about this and others deseases you sure cannot find in US, but is sure is alive and people living with it in their lives. Now what many countries do have in commom is AIDS.
About condition people develop spots and may become all white in their skin is vitiligo, I think...and there are skin condition melasma that people develop brown spots triggered because sun, hormones, etc ...now, a desease where even peoples hair becomes white as snow? Called lepra in bible times, is not what we call hanseniese today. Albino people have a condition but they are born with it I supose...
One thing I know: strange things happens that do not make sense ever, as different groups in history try to claim some race superioty and others inferiority. Some reggard colors, others physical atributes, simple birth into different casts systems and etc is very much obvious that there are lot of different systems into place.
About system that i pretty much see in US starts in the Census itself. Just look at it people!  It does not make any sense, to me, that it starts simple "white" and then goes on "black - African American" and then "Hispanics, Latinos, Cubans, Porto Ricans ..other" and than "Asian and their groups.." and than " Natives" and than...etc etc
Now if some one start by color categorization ways give other colors other than black and white...and if start with location heritage give the options already known belong to US immigration history...well, to me the approach of Census about "white" is a big give away of the clueness that goes on to some, perpetuating in this country system into place, still.
Sin is a leprosy. 
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/21/2008 11:12:55 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4319
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
What the heck does this ridiculous conversation regarding leprosy have to do with anything at all???
I think some people will argue with a stuffed animal.
My computer screen is now covered in coffee
that little ole block feature takes care of the worst of it
_____________________________
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/21/2008 11:29:00 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6364
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
"Most scholars" usually means a majority of scholars; however, in all of my studies I have yet to find any scholar who holds this opinion. Exactly which scholars have come to this conclusion??????
So you have never came across a scholar that believe the Egyptians were Black, OK.
Go to the Egytians themselves. In ancient Egyptian art, they show themselves, as many are today, lighter skinned than their Nubian allies.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/25/2008 12:57:26 AM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 645
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
quote:
My people most certainly DID NOT worship rocksand sticks.We worshipped the Creator of the Universe... you know, GOD.
No you didnt. say what you will, that you worshiped the "great spirit", the "great father", or what ever, you most certainly didnt worship the God of the bible. You show me in the american indian religious tradition that Jesus became man to suffer and die for the sin of man kind. Dont tell me about ravens or turtles or white buffalos, or any great owl for that matter. show me the commandments of God according to american indian lore, because if you didnt have it according to the word of God in the bible, then you never had it.
First of all tell me what you are basing your assertations on. What tribe have you lived with and studied the traditional beliefs of? It surely isn't mine, as we have always known who God is- the Creator, the Great Holy Mystery, The Almighty, The One Above, The Giver, The Provider, The Heaven Chief, Father of Us All, The Sacred Fire, The Holder of the Heavens, and several other names.
Do you honestly think that God is so limited that He can't develop a relationship with people without some white man bringing Him over in a book that the white man himself gives little more than lip service to... in the interest of the Gospel of Conquest and Greed rather than the Gospel of Christ, of course. Do you not know that His first testament to Himself is His creation and that He uses the lessons therein to reach and instruct those who seek Him?
If you examine the Bible closely you will see:
that the four directions are addressed as sacred...we do the same.
animals represent spiritual qualities or aspects of divine power and thus assume sacred symbolism...we see them this way as well. Viewing something as sacred is NOT the same as worshipping it as a god. And while we're there, tell me how a flag is more sacred than something made by God's own hand, like a buffalo or eagle.
the the Hebrews recognized the presence of God everywhere, but held certain places as especially sacred sites... so do we.
that nothing belongs to man but all things belong to the One who made them... we also recognize this.
that metaphor and stories are part of the language to teach spiritual principles, such as Jesus' parables...we have the same thing in our traditions.
And for your edification, let it be known thet we Cherokee KNEW of the birth of the Creator-Son because we were told of it at the time it happened by the Nunyehi, the Immortal Ones who were messengers of the Creator. Thrity-three years late, they told us of His death and resurrection. Then He came to us in His resurrected form- He healed the sick, resurrected the dead, and gave us The Words of Life(and no this is NOT that Mormon stuff). No one BUT the Lord could have resurrected the dead, for Satan does not have this ability. He also warned us about white folks, who would come speaking His name but using it to do us evil, which is why we were very hostile to the white man from the beginning of contact. I was taught The Words of Life as a child and they concur exactly with Scripture although they are not as extensive as the Bible.
Unless you are Cherokee and have been raised within the traditional culture, please DO NOT insult me by claiming that you know more than I do about what my people believe. I may be Indian, but even I deserve more respect than that.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/25/2008 1:07:18 AM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 645
Joined: 7/14/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HHV5
Do you or do you not believe that God sent Europeans to carry out judgment against native populations of Africa and the Americas?
Since Europeans had the Bible but chose to act in ways which violated Christ's own commandments, I believe that said Europeans sinned against God and their fellow man. It is not necessary to conquer, exploit, enslave, and/or exterminate people to spread the Gospel, nor does any "Christian" nation have the right to usurp another nation's boundaries or rulers because those nations are so-called "heathens". Can you imagine how different history would have been if explorers had come as true servants of Christ and treated the peoples with love, respect, and walked among them as living examples of the Gospel of Christ? Would Africa be in such violent turmoil? Would Native Americans have been slaughtered wholesale and the survivors then stripped of everything including their dignity? Would there have been slavery in the Americas? Would there be such racial strife now?
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/25/2008 1:20:26 AM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 645
Joined: 7/14/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
My idea of soul food is Bible reading.
I've never understood the term "soul food." What does it mean?
You're joking, right?
It's down-home Southern cooking! Fried chicken, greens, potatoes, gravy, cornbread, sweet potatoes, black-eyed peas, fried or boiled okra... the list goes on and on, but it is the absolute best food anywhere!
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/25/2008 1:45:00 AM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 645
Joined: 7/14/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Makes as much sense as how we got really white people.
albinoism, leperosy, a mutant gene as DNA has found.
That's not true. When peoplemigratedto Europethousandsof years ago, they came to a land where it was cold, overcast much of the time, and frequently rainy. In addition, the closer you get to the Arctic Circle, the less sunlight there is during the year and particularly during the winter. In order for the body to receive enough sunlight to properly process Vitamin D for proper bone growth and nerve function, the skin had to be lighter-complected.
Albinism has NOTHING to do with the origins of Caucasians.
I'd advise everyone to take a look at the Human Genome Project at the National Geographic website. According to the genetic evidence, the oldestpeople group on the planet are the Bushmen of the Kalahari, then the Australian Aboriginies. Europeans descended from people who migrated from Africa to Saudi Arabia then to Central Asia before turning westward and eventually populating Europe. Incidentally, these Central Asian people are also the ancestors of Asians, Pacific Islanders, and Native Americans.
If you look at the bushmen, they are not blacks- they are brown with features that are variously Asian, Caucasian, and black. Their hair is wooly but not nappy. Their language is unrelated to any other on the planet.
It is a reminder to me of why Native peoples when we pray end with "All my relations." It's also an absolutely amazing affirmation that we all come from the same parents.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/10/2008 9:58:23 PM
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Lady_of_Faith
Posts: 81
Joined: 9/18/2008
Status: offline
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Continuing from where I left off in "Interesting Comment on BO" thread:
For years, I wondered why most blacks were democrats. After researching the history of the democrats, I was appalled. In the early part of the 20th century, southern democrats inforced the infamous Jim Crow laws. They supported segregation as well as receiving support from the KKK. Republicans actually wanted to abolish segregation and believed in equal rights for all. Believe it or not there is a large group of blacks who are repuplican and supporting McCain. So why do most blacks continue to claim being democratic? I believe it's a matter of 'follow the leader'. My dear, sweet grandmother, bless her heart, can't stand Sarah Palin, yet she had turned the channel when she debated with Biden, so she didnt' even give the woman a chance!
I'm going to base this on my family and what I witness over the years. Growing up, my parents were raised as to not as questions, do as I do. Your opinion doesn't really matter because you're young and don't know any better. My dad, I love him dearly, but he's from the old school. So when h | | |
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I don't know what's the right word to use--attractive? interesting? something....