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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 7/2/2008 12:11:43 PM
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loveineffable
Posts: 90
Joined: 5/23/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: loveineffable
Food for thought here for you all
Consider this John 16, after the death, burial and ressurection. Jesus telling his disciples of the coming Holy Spirit and the Job of the Holy Spirit
John 16: 8 -11, yet important to read the whole chapter
(8)And when he is come (Holy Spirit) he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement
(9)of sin beacause they believe not on me (Jesus)
(10) Of righteousness, because I (Jesus) go to my Father, and ye see me no more
(11) Of Judgement, because the prince of this world is judged.
So according to this chapter of the Holy Ghost it is his job to lead others to believe in Christ
Also to show you , you are forgiven, and as well the prince of this world has been defeated
But it starts with one to believe in Christ. We were born as unbelievers. To stay an unbeliever is blasphemy, rejection as they rejected Christ already back in matt.
The Holy Spirits job to convict the world of their unbelief in Christ, and what he did for you. Refusing to trust Christ, and what he did at the cross for you, me and anyone else that believes.
He took the sin of the whole world out of the way except for the unbelief, in his Fathers Spirit, so the Spirit can come and live in you, upon belief.
Back in Matthew, the pharisees did not believe in him. There are still people today that believe, or know he is real, yet refuse to put their faith in him. So really they just claim to believe. Actions speak louder than words and the justified live by faith in Christ period, Romansw 1:17
The only thing Christ did not die for is unbelief. If you put your trust in him you shall be saved, if you do not, I am sorry for those that do not.
In light of knowing it is either belief or unbelief that Paul is talking about along with the other disciples, after the ressurection, The word becomes clear and flows.
About hebrews Chapter 6. Try start reading hebrews 5:12 on through to 6:6 and maybe it might be clearer what the author meant. Seeing how God is the Author. Man just messes it up
ineffable love
I think you summed it up, i agree, and thank God for his mercy
ineffable love
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 7/2/2008 3:45:59 PM
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gmc4Jesus
Posts: 229
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Torrance, California
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Loveineffable,
Post 49 says essentailly what I was going to say.
From my years in ministry and Bible study, I have recognized that any sin that a person commits can be forgiven, except the sin of not accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior.
The Holy Spirit's purpose as you cited in John 16:8-11 establishes the Holy Spirit's purpose - to point us to Jesus (not display and bring attention to itself in signs and religous displays as is engaged by some). Therefore, to reject the Holy Spirit's testimony of Jesus as the Son of God and our Savior is to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. The consequences are eternity in hell.
As long as we live, we have the opportunity to accept Jesus. Lets not reject that generous offer and blaspheme the Holy Spirit!
_____________________________
Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 7/2/2008 5:59:50 PM
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loveineffable
Posts: 90
Joined: 5/23/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
Loveineffable,
Post 49 says essentailly what I was going to say.
From my years in ministry and Bible study, I have recognized that any sin that a person commits can be forgiven, except the sin of not accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior.
The Holy Spirit's purpose as you cited in John 16:8-11 establishes the Holy Spirit's purpose - to point us to Jesus (not display and bring attention to itself in signs and religous displays as is engaged by some). Therefore, to reject the Holy Spirit's testimony of Jesus as the Son of God and our Savior is to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. The consequences are eternity in hell.
As long as we live, we have the opportunity to accept Jesus. Lets not reject that generous offer and blaspheme the Holy Spirit!
Agreed, And thanks for the site, I registered, and wrote over there. look forward to further chats
ineffable love
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 7/23/2008 11:55:12 PM
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cognitivemagic
Posts: 210
Joined: 1/14/2008
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quote:
up until now I was so sure that I was saved. but my wife read something to me out of the scripture that I hadn't thought about. it says blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable. i know I've spoken against the Lord before many times in my life. I was a stupid kid who didn't believe in anything. but now I'm a devout Christian. I'm determined to be a Pastor. I want to spend my life serving Him and I truly repent for everything I've ever done. can I ever truly be saved? or have the mistakes of my past already condemned me? someone. please help.
Dear friend, it's very obvious that you fear God.....so, no, you cannot have committed the "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit". Or if you did, it's obvious that you repented. But let me explain myself.
I wrote about this in another post but I will repeat it again, here, for your sake.
The "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" is not a sin, like having done something; or having failed to do something you should have done.
Rather, it's a state/condition related to your ability to "know" things....like "knowing" that the sky is blue or that 2 plus 2 equals 4.
With respect to God's "revealing" Himself to us, He has chosen the Holy Spirit as the Person who enlightens our understanding so that we can see God revealing Himself to us. But if we condition our thinking in such a way that when God does reveal Himself we cannot perceive and believe in His reality, then what more can God do to make Himself known? A "miracle" is the highest degree of evidence that God can submit as providing unambiguous proof that He's real.
If you were an atheist, for example, you might be conditioned to believe that what you had seen (i.e. a decapitated limb grow back or a blind person having their sight return) was merely a "natural" event that, despite our scientific ignorance, has some scientific explanation.
Therefore, if our condition for "knowing" God has become such that we cannot come to believe in Him, even when there's clearly a miracle before our very eyes, God cannot do anything more for us without overriding our being; in which case we would no longer be an "I" or "ego"; but rather an "it", that happens to be controlled by God.
And so we are in "danger" of judgment because we haven't believe, based on the best God can do.
Nevertheless, that doesn't mean that we can't be forgiven....even if we fail to accept God in light of His miracles. It just means that God can't do more than that for us.
Yet we still possess a "will" that is truly free. And so, we can still repent and turn to God, even if we did commit the "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit".
It's "unforgivable" because it's not a "sin", but a state/condition of a person.
Let me use one other example:
Jesus talked about the "Sower" in a parable (Matt. 13:3-23) as illustrating the mercy of God. He told of the seed that the Sower had dropped on several types of soil; but only one soil produced a good harvest.
And someone could be tempted to read that parable and say to themselves "I am the rocky soil"....(for such and such reasons)......"and therefore I'm going to go to hell!!"
But wait a minute. This parable is talking about everyone of us. The "soils" are the different stages of the Christian life. Each of us was the seed that fell by the wayside, right? Wasn't there a time in your life when the Gospel didn't mean much? A time when Christianity was irrelevant?
Or what of the soil that waffles under pressure and persecution? Or waffles under temptations towards pleasure and riches? Again, who of us hasn't been there? Look at King David and King Solomon. Or St. Peter. Or Moses. They were there too!! That's why God gave us a "cloud of many witnesses" (Hebrews 11).
It's no coincidence that "Israel" means "one who wrestles/struggles with God."
Understand then that the "soil" is the heart. And if you understand that all farmers cultivate their fields, regardless of their conditions, in order to yield a harvest; then also understand that God, likewise, is cultivating our hearts in this life in order that His seed will produce a harvest.
God is not done cultivating you yet....even if you're still waffling on rocky ground!!
And if you think you know how, or even what, God is doing with you, remember this verse:
"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart
of man
The things which God has
prepared for those who love
Him"
(1 Cor. 2:9)
That includes the past and present....not just the future. After all, the past was a "present" and the "present" (from the perspective of the past) was the future!!
and
"But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this: but He who judges me is the Lord. Therefore, judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God."
(1 Cor. 4:3-5)
Remember the words of C.S. Lewis:
"God whispers to us in our pleasures but He shouts to us in our pains. Pain is God's megaphone to rouse a deaf world".
Therefore, notice that He is still speaking to you.
God bless.
< Message edited by cognitivemagic -- 7/24/2008 8:12:32 PM >
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 10/16/2008 11:11:07 PM
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apnorton
Posts: 3
Joined: 10/9/2008
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quote:
Original: rcjames
[/Or what I believe to be a great example of blsspheming the Holy Ghost in; (Heb 6:4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (Heb 6:5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (Heb 6:6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
quote]It seems to me that you believe Blaspheming the Holy Spirit in Matthew chapter 12 verses22 through 32 and Walking away from Salvation listed in Hebrews chapters chapters 6 verses 4,through 6 & chapter 10 verses 26 through 30 are the same .This walking away from God has been called by some, the( Sin Unto Death) 1st John chapter 5 verses 16 and 17. If these two subjects are the same, then it would take a long time to Blaspheme the Holy Spirit. It would take a Christian a long time to totally reject his salvation given by Jesus Christ, so it would take the Christian a long time to Blaspheme the Holy Spirit. The first time the Pharisses attributed the Holy Spirits works to Satan was in Matthew chapter 9 vs 34. Nobody ever mentions that fact. Jesus never said anything to the Pharissees at that time.
Why? The Pharisees hadn't totally hardened their hearts towards the Holy Spirit. When did the Pharisees Blaspheme the Holy Spirit? Right after the miracle performed by Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit in Matthew chapter 12 verse 22,and they responded to the crowd asking could this be the Son of David? They were asking could this Jesus be the Messiah. That is when the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit took place as the Pharisees denied Christs Messiaship. That was the reason they spoke against the Holy Spirit. They were denying Jesus being the Son of God. Of course they also spoke against the Holy Spirit and totally rejected Him out of their lives.
Additionally I have read some Greek tenses on this subject and the Greek words for speaketh in Mark Chapter 3 verse 22 is an imperfect tense word that is translated speaking or saying instead of speaketh which seems to be a one time act of speaking. Also Hebrew scholars have translated the New Testament back into Hebrew,and the speaketh in Matthew chapter 12 verse 32 is translated keeps on speaking. I think I can trust the tranlsation of Hebrew and Greek since the Bible was written in those languages.
As I mentioned before no Christian could walk away from Salvation commit the (Sin Unto Death)overnight because the Holy Spirit is always there convicting us Christians of sin not condenming, and no Christian could Blaspheme the Holy Spirit overnight by saying the Holy Spirits power is of Satan. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit which is speaking against the Holy Spirit by attributing the Holy Spirits' power to Satan was not and is not a one time sin. A Christian or anybody would have to attributes the Holy Spirits' power to Satan continuossly.The Pharisses continually spoke against the Holy Spirit moving through Jesus Christ remember they weren't after the Holy Spirit,they were after Jesus Christ.
Does anybody actually believe that a person Christian or not could sin and not be forgiven? What kind of tormenter would God be ,and God is not the tormenter Satan is. Do you think God would have someone believing that if a person attributed the Holy Spirits' power to Satan ,and that person felt convicted and of that sin by the Holy Spirit who is the one who draws everyone to God for forgiveness,and wanted Gods' mercy and forgiveness ,God would say "No, you have to walk around the rest of your life knowing your going to Hell." What torment. That's not Gods' nature.The only reason someone would turn to God for forgiveness for Blaspheming is the Holy Spirit. Otherwise this person would not care about saying the Holy Spirit is the Devil. What did Jesus die for? Jesus' Blood cleanses us from all sin. Why would Jesus die on the cross for every sin except one.Now I am not trying to minimize the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It's a serious thing if someone voluntarilly totally rejects the Holy Spirit out of his or her life with their wicked speech saying the Holy Spirit is Satan,but I suggest picking up a copy of the Jewish New Testament by David H Stern,and see how the Hebrews interpret Matthew and Mark on Blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Also most preachers will tell you that Blaspheming the Holy Spirit was continual speech not a one time speaking event. Well Bye Now .
< Message edited by apnorton -- 10/16/2008 11:08:54 PM >
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< Message edited by apnorton -- 10/16/2008 11:23:28 PM >
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 10/17/2008 12:42:59 PM
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raivyne
Posts: 1010
Joined: 8/28/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DLindros
up until now I was so sure that I was saved. but my wife read something to me out of the scripture that I hadn't thought about. it says blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable. i know I've spoken against the Lord before many times in my life. I was a stupid kid who didn't believe in anything. but now I'm a devout Christian. I'm determined to be a Pastor. I want to spend my life serving Him and I truly repent for everything I've ever done. can I ever truly be saved? or have the mistakes of my past already condemned me? someone. please help.
If you read it within context (as follows):
quote:
Jesus and Beelzebub
22Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"
24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub,[d] the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."
25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.
30"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
33"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
Jesus was speaking directly to the Pharisees who claimed he was just a devil driving out other devils/demons/evil spirits. Jesus rebuked them and also warned them that to call the work of the Holy Spirit (which was within Jesus and working through him) the work of the devil was blasphemy (of the spirit). He said:
"And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. "
I interpret this as things said out of ignorance (like Jesus isn't real or God doesn't exist, etc etc) can be forgiven once you become born again. Once you have (or should have) intimate knowledge of they Holy Spirit then blasphemy is unforgivable.
I hope I explained that OK. Anyway that's just what I think. YMMV
Also, if the Lord is still leading you and drawing you to him then you have not committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit IMO.
_____________________________
P.U.S.H. – Pray Until Something Happens
What if God is asking us for a sign?
Knowledge is proud; wisdom is humble.
Patiently waiting for my KSA
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 10/20/2008 5:14:42 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7430
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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Can you blasphemy the Holy Spirit if you aren't a Christian?
_____________________________
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 10/20/2008 5:27:03 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6360
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Can you blasphemy the Holy Spirit if you aren't a Christian?
It seems that the ones Jesus was speaking about were unbelievers.
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 10/22/2008 10:48:45 PM
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Chapmon
Posts: 109
Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:
IF we suppose that the blasphemy of the HS is as outlined above, what then happens to one who commits said act and then at some later point comes unto repentance before God and receives salvation?
That is an impossible proposition involving contradictory concepts. The sin (blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) is explicitly taught to be unforgivable. Salvation requires divine forgiveness. Your proposition fails the test of being an hypothesis. In order for a person to come to repentance and be saved after blaspheming the Holy Spirit by a biblical standard would have power over God’s statute and would be capable of making God a liar, which is an unthinkable proposition.
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 10/23/2008 1:03:22 PM
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PCRB
Posts: 23
Joined: 1/12/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Chapmon
That is an impossible proposition involving contradictory concepts. The sin (blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) is explicitly taught to be unforgivable. Salvation requires divine forgiveness. Your proposition fails the test of being an hypothesis. In order for a person to come to repentance and be saved after blaspheming the Holy Spirit by a biblical standard would have power over God’s statute and would be capable of making God a liar, which is an unthinkable proposition.
agreed...i should have left out "and receives salvation"
so, revisiting the scenario, and in light of explaining the mechanics of the scenario to a young believer....
is it that
A) the offender, because of a hardened heart, simply will not come to a place of repentance
B) God, by way of offense will not draw the offender
C) by way of offense, the offender has effectually forfeited any shot at salvation
D) all of the above
E) other
thanks for your input.
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 10/23/2008 10:42:39 PM
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My_Redeemer_Lives08
Posts: 69
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
No one can witness Jesus Christ performing a miracle and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Spirit.... As a result, the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today. Jesus Christ is not on earth. but seated at the right Hand of God. But, if the Holy Spirit is still performing miracles on earth today (and I believe He is), atributing those miracles to satan would also be blasphming the HS.
There is quite a bit of distinction between being in front of Jesus during His earthly ministry and doing it to seeing something now, testing in light of Scripture, and seeing that it is not of God.
The Pharisees - who knew that Jesus' miracles validated His words and ministry (see John 11:45-48) - were attempting to discredit Jesus' Messiahship by saying that His works were by the devil and not by the Holy Spirit.
Therefore, when the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Satan, they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit by whom Jesus performed His miracles.
This is unforgivable because it struck at the very heart of the redemptive work of God in Christ. It struck at the very nature of Jesus’ ministry of redemption, testimony, and teaching. Jesus was ministering in the power of the Holy Spirit Himself, fulfilling the divine plan of God to provide a sacrifice for our sins (John 3:16; 1 John 4:10). The Pharisees were attributing this to demonic activity. This is a great blasphemy.
Some have emailed me and asked me if a a born-again believer can commit the unforgivable sin. No.
How can someone who has been born again (John 3:7), made a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17), and received eternal life (John 10:27-28) actually commit the unforgivable sin? He cannot. Jesus Himself said that we have eternal life, not conditional life: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand." Besides, it says in 2 Corinthians 5:17 that the Christian is a new creation in Christ. We are different, no longer slaves to the old nature (Romans 6:14). We are regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
There is no biblical support for a believer committing this sin. It just hasn’t happened. Also, if you are worried that you may have committed the sin and can’t be forgiven, then don’t be concerned. If you are worrying about it, then you haven’t committed it. If you are worried about it, then that is a sign that you have not committed it. If you had, you wouldn’t be concerned. Which is what was seen by the Pharisees.
I wish you were right, but I am afraid you are not. The Holy Spirit is still working among us and his work can still be attrubuted to satan; ergo the sin can still be committed.
When one tries to fit everything to a preconcieved idea (as with OSAS) one runs the danger of giving folks a false sense of security as in you cannot commit blasphemy because it would screw up one's OSAS theology.
AS for me; Jesus said and warned us and I believe it is an unforgable sin that can be committed.
Thanks
RC
edited to add
So I guess Paul was just teasing when the Holy Spirit had him write;
(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Thanks
I agree RC.
The point is that there is no other acceptable sacrifice for sin that the death of Christ on the cross. If someone deliberately rejects the sacrifice of Christ after clearly understanding the gospel teaching about it, then there is no way for that person to be saved, because God has not provided any other name under heaven by which we can be saved......see
Acts 4:12
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 10/23/2008 10:52:06 PM
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My_Redeemer_Lives08
Posts: 69
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
Loveineffable,
Post 49 says essentailly what I was going to say.
From my years in ministry and Bible study, I have recognized that any sin that a person commits can be forgiven, except the sin of not accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior.
The Holy Spirit's purpose as you cited in John 16:8-11 establishes the Holy Spirit's purpose - to point us to Jesus (not display and bring attention to itself in signs and religous displays as is engaged by some). Therefore, to reject the Holy Spirit's testimony of Jesus as the Son of God and our Savior is to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. The consequences are eternity in hell.
As long as we live, we have the opportunity to accept Jesus. Lets not reject that generous offer and blaspheme the Holy Spirit!
WELL SAID!!
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 10/30/2008 3:53:35 AM
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horsepill
Posts: 120
Joined: 10/2/2006
From: Takes-izz
Status: offline
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In Luke:
12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
12:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
I read once what is contained in verses 11 & 12 is the unforgivable sin, if you do not allow the Holy Spirit to speak through you and use your own voice at the time is to blaspheme. It was the only time I've seen it mentioned where that is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, all other times it's been the continuous rejection of the truth, as mentioned in this thread.
And so reading through the thread, I wondered if anyone else knows anything of this being the unpardonable sin?
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A word of encouragement during a failure is worth more than an hour of praise after success.
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 10/30/2008 10:05:33 AM
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misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: horsepill
In Luke:
12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
12:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
I read once what is contained in verses 11 & 12 is the unforgivable sin, if you do not allow the Holy Spirit to speak through you and use your own voice at the time is to blaspheme. It was the only time I've seen it mentioned where that is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, all other times it's been the continuous rejection of the truth, as mentioned in this thread.
And so reading through the thread, I wondered if anyone else knows anything of this being the unpardonable sin?
I can warn u up front, u will clearly have a debate on this question, lol
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7 
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 11/2/2008 10:05:54 AM
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bravjim
Posts: 395
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
* knowledge of truth does not equal being born-again - just knowing about God's truth and not acting on the conviction of the Holy Spirit.
Many know about God's grace but they freely reject it - there is no other sacrifice because Jesus is it. If they reject Him than they are out of luck.
The danger is that in the zeal to protect one's pet theology that that one rejects even the Words of Christ.
Jesus warns us of the serious consequences of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and I am grateful for that warning. But to deny that what He said is the truth or valid today is just plain dangerous theology as Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Now I am not a "if you sin, you loose your salvation" type of guy, but Scripture teaches in many places about falling away;
RC: This passage has to do with the rebellion of the antichrist against God, not believers turning away from God. The other verse you provide does back up your position, as does at least 2 others in Hebrews. One of which is Heb 10:38 & 39
(2Th 2:3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Or what I believe to be a great example of blsspheming the Holy Ghost in;
(Heb 6:4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
(Heb 6:5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
(Heb 6:6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
We just cannot ignore these verses just because they do not line up with the Holy Grail of OSAS.
My main concern is that by misrepresenting the Scripture we may lead one into committing the unpardonable sin.
Now at the risk of getting a spanking from the mods, I will say that I do not understand how one who is saved, has tasted the Heavenly gift, partakers of the Holy Ghost, and enlightened can leave the Faith; but the Scripture says it can happen and gives the consequences for such actions in the above quote from Hebrew's 6.
My real concern is those who are not saved, but think that they are; and are kept in darkness by the repeated promises of OSAS adhereants that nothing can destroy what they think they have, even if they don't have it. Matthew 7.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 11/2/2008 11:47:21 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2504
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
* knowledge of truth does not equal being born-again - just knowing about God's truth and not acting on the conviction of the Holy Spirit.
Many know about God's grace but they freely reject it - there is no other sacrifice because Jesus is it. If they reject Him than they are out of luck.
The danger is that in the zeal to protect one's pet theology that that one rejects even the Words of Christ.
Jesus warns us of the serious consequences of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and I am grateful for that warning. But to deny that what He said is the truth or valid today is just plain dangerous theology as Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Now I am not a "if you sin, you loose your salvation" type of guy, but Scripture teaches in many places about falling away;
(2Th 2:3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Or what I believe to be a great example of blsspheming the Holy Ghost in;
(Heb 6:4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
(Heb 6:5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
(Heb 6:6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
We just cannot ignore these verses just because they do not line up with the Holy Grail of OSAS.
My main concern is that by misrepresenting the Scripture we may lead one into committing the unpardonable sin.
Now at the risk of getting a spanking from the mods, I will say that I do not understand how one who is saved, has tasted the Heavenly gift, partakers of the Holy Ghost, and enlightened can leave the Faith; but the Scripture says it can happen and gives the consequences for such actions in the above quote from Hebrew's 6.
My real concern is those who are not saved, but think that they are; and are kept in darkness by the repeated promises of OSAS adherents that nothing can destroy what they think they have, even if they don't have it. Matthew 7.
Thanks
RC
quote:
Now I am not a "if you sin, you loose your salvation" type of guy, but Scripture teaches in many places about falling away;
Greetings
quote:
Scripture teaches in many places about falling away
Let’s start here…
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that “you have left”… your first love. 5 Remember therefore from “where”…. you have fallen; = salvation)>>>>>repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place--unless you repent.
What are the first works Jesus is speaking of?
IMO ....the first works are simply placing Jesus… above oneself
The Blaspheme of the HS by the example given by Jesus is that the unsaved= (Satan) can cast out Satan = the unsaved can save themselves…
So it is a self proclaimed adherence to that lie that one can save themselves!
The falling away in v 5 of Rev 2 >>> saying
Remember therefore from “where”…. you have fallen; = salvation in Christ)>>>>>repent and do the “first works”, = confess in Christ…
And the “first works” is as anyone of us did in the beginning…. it is that confession that only Jesus saves and as spoken to believers in Rev 2 …= recommitment
Many believe the blasphemy of the HS only occurs if one rejects Christ and when that one dies there is no forgiveness which is partly true because there is no conscience decision made… when one is dead.
One has to be alive to reject Christ in the first place …
The fallen who blaspheme the HS as mentioned in Rev 2 are being reminded from “where”…. you have fallen;
There is no indication that when Jesus said this….or else I will come to you “quickly” and remove your lampstand from its place--unless you repent.
….There is no indication in Rev 2 that Jesus is coming to kill that person…
Because... that is NOT why He came….
It says ….He will come while that person is still living>> and remove the lampstand from its place. --unless they repent = still living.
Which was spoken here in
Lu 12:46 - Show Context
the master “of that servant”….. will come on a day when he is not looking for him =(quickly…Rev 2),> and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two=( Rev 2..and remove the lampstand from its place) >> "and".... appoint him “his portion” with the unbelievers. = 2
The phrase here>>> and appoint him “his portion”… with the unbelievers.
(And in like manner “that portion is appointed”… to the unbelievers.. >in whom the Father will draw to Christ)…
…..The other losses that portion… by the blasphemy of the HS… in which there is no forgiveness… because there is no forgiveness… because the Father “will not be drawing them”.. to Christ!..... But rather “will allow them”… to be drawn to themselves!...
…so that the scripture will be fulfilled = that kingdom will fall.
And
…..That scenario is spoken by Jesus here… in the context below; and witnessed by Judas
(because we did not see Jesus praying to the father… for Judas salvation)
John 5:43 - Show Context
I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; ""if""....(unless we repent).... another comes in his own name, him you will receive. = blasphemy of the HS
Good examples of a blasphemer in these recent days has been seen in the likes of a Jeremiah Wright and such 
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 11/2/2008 12:04:45 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
* knowledge of truth does not equal being born-again - just knowing about God's truth and not acting on the conviction of the Holy Spirit.
Many know about God's grace but they freely reject it - there is no other sacrifice because Jesus is it. If they reject Him than they are out of luck.
The danger is that in the zeal to protect one's pet theology that that one rejects even the Words of Christ.
Jesus warns us of the serious consequences of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and I am grateful for that warning. But to deny that what He said is the truth or valid today is just plain dangerous theology as Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Now I am not a "if you sin, you loose your salvation" type of guy, but Scripture teaches in many places about falling away;
(2Th 2:3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Or what I believe to be a great example of blsspheming the Holy Ghost in;
(Heb 6:4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
(Heb 6:5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
(Heb 6:6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
We just cannot ignore these verses just because they do not line up with the Holy Grail of OSAS.
My main concern is that by misrepresenting the Scripture we may lead one into committing the unpardonable sin.
Now at the risk of getting a spanking from the mods, I will say that I do not understand how one who is saved, has tasted the Heavenly gift, partakers of the Holy Ghost, and enlightened can leave the Faith; but the Scripture says it can happen and gives the consequences for such actions in the above quote from Hebrew's 6.
My real concern is those who are not saved, but think that they are; and are kept in darkness by the repeated promises of OSAS adherents that nothing can destroy what they think they have, even if they don't have it. Matthew 7.
Thanks
RC
quote:
Now I am not a "if you sin, you loose your salvation" type of guy, but Scripture teaches in many places about falling away;
Greetings
quote:
Scripture teaches in many places about falling away
Let’s start here…
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that “you have left”… your first love. 5 Remember therefore from “where”…. you have fallen; = salvation)>>>>>repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place--unless you repent.
What are the first works Jesus is speaking of?
IMO ....the first works are simply placing Jesus… above oneself
The Blaspheme of the HS by the example given by Jesus is that the unsaved= (Satan) can cast out Satan = the unsaved can save themselves…
So it is a self proclaimed adherence to that lie that one can save themselves!
The falling away in v 5 of Rev 2 >>> saying
Remember therefore from “where”…. you have fallen; = salvation in Christ)>>>>>repent and do the “first works”, = confess in Christ…
And the “first works” is as anyone of us did in the beginning…. it is that confession that only Jesus saves and as spoken to believers in Rev 2 …= recommitment
Many believe the blasphemy of the HS only occurs if one rejects Christ and when that one dies there is no forgiveness which is partly true because there is no conscience decision made… when one is dead.
One has to be alive to reject Christ in the first place …
The fallen who blaspheme the HS as mentioned in Rev 2 are being reminded from “where”…. you have fallen;
There is no indication that when Jesus said this….or else I will come to you “quickly” and remove your lampstand from its place--unless you repent.
….There is no indication in Rev 2 that Jesus is coming to kill that person…
Because... that is NOT why He came….
It says ….He will come while that person is still living>> and remove the lampstand from its place. --unless they repent = still living.
Which was spoken here in
Lu 12:46 - Show Context
the master “of that servant”….. will come on a day when he is not looking for him =(quickly…Rev 2),> and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two=( Rev 2..and remove the lampstand from its place) >> "and".... appoint him “his portion” with the unbelievers. = 2
The phrase here>>> and appoint him “his portion”… with the unbelievers.
(And in like manner “that portion is appointed”… to the unbelievers.. >in whom the Father will draw to Christ)…
…..The other losses that portion… by the blasphemy of the HS… in which there is no forgiveness… because there is no forgiveness… because the Father “will not be drawing them”.. to Christ!..... But rather “will allow them”… to be drawn to themselves!...
…so that the scripture will be fulfilled = that kingdom will fall.
And
…..That scenario is spoken by Jesus here… in the context below; and witnessed by Judas
(because we did not see Jesus praying to the father… for Judas salvation)
John 5:43 - Show Context
I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; ""if""....(unless we repent).... another comes in his own name, him you will receive. = blasphemy of the HS
Good examples of a blasphemer in these recent days has been seen in the likes of a Jeremiah Wright and such
LG
Who is Jeremiah Wright? Is he someone like Benny Hinn?
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 11/2/2008 12:07:44 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2504
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
Who is Jeremiah Wright? Is he someone like Benny Hinn?
I don't know? but I never heard Benny cursing the USA
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - 11/2/2008 12:20:58 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
quote:
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